released September 7, 2005

M. BRODY MEETS BEN W

In November 2005 journalist and COQ-biographer M. Brody tracked down CIR CEO Ben W at the aptly named Clinic in Toolangi, Victoria, a big empty rental house in the rainforest where the recluse had gone to dry out, recording what would become The Clinic Sessions in the process.

MB: Ben W, hello, it’s a pleasure to be talking to you.

BW: “It is something to be at last speaking.*” (Laughs.) Yes I agree. It’s not often I get asked to do interviews.

MB: Why’s that? Is CIR not the publicity-maker you’d hoped for?

BW: To be honest, I never hoped CIR would get much publicity. It’s more of a concept than a serious business concern.

MB: A concept? In what way?

BW: Well you’re hardly gonna set the charts alight when you’re putting out runs of fifty CDs or less. I’m working for posterity. The main thing is to document. My aim is to establish the *idea* of a company called Cottage Industry Recordings. The incorporation of that company, the tallying up of sales figures, the distribution of our products – none of that interests me. CIR makes recordings. And yet, music wants to be heard...

MB: The presence of an observer changes that which is being observed?

BW: Exactly. So there’s a conflict there, but I’m not ready to resolve it. My job is to get the stuff down. It’ll have to be someone else who gets it out there.

MB: I’m thinking of the first CIR release I ever heard, COQ Solo, a limited run of twenty mini-CDs with hand-painted covers. But the vibe was up: let’s get the message out there!

BW: Well yeah. But you’re talking about COQ, and the guy’s a madman. Thinks he’s been “shot through time” from a devolved future, and trying to send an SOS via a crossover hit to his people. I mean, maybe it wouldn’t be so laughable if he wasn’t on CIR, y’know? (Laughs.)

MB: Still, if that’s what he wants you could try to be more accommodating.

BW: Sure sure. Look, I know I’m not doing much to increase my artists’ profiles. But CIR is a way for us to develop in private, among friends, where we can make mistakes and not feel they’re fatal, where we can explore our capabilities before some journalist or marketing team sets them in stone. Keep in mind just about every song we record has been improvised in the “studio” – I use the term loosely – on crappy equipment and produced by an absolute novice – me – whose main aim is experimentation. Just throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks. Get some sounds on the disk so I can fiddle with the dials. And in the process see what pops out of me and the other musicians when we’re not so conscious.

MB: Yes, the other musicians, that was going to be my next question. Without wanting to be rude, I’m wondering what their input is.

BW: Of course, sorry. I never wanted to be a producer. I’m a frustrated musician.

MB: And that’s a bone of contention with your collaborators?

BW (raising his voice): Look, if you’re talking about COQ I already told you he’s a lunatic. Half the time he’s incapable of playing the way he imagines it. He’s got zero tolerance for drugs and he’s rotted his brain with gangsta rap. So yeah, I’ve stepped in and played parts for him, even rewrote a rap when he was too high and couldn’t make it scan.

MB: Yet he claims he has albums’ worth of music that won’t see the light of day because of your focus on your own projects.

BW: Ha! “Albums’ worth”! He brings me a riff, a shouted line of lyrics and a solo and tells me “Do your thing!” Or he submits a party album by the Chicken Dinners Project that’s literally just that: four guys, fucked up, having a party. Ten-minute songs, ropey as hell, and he expects me to edit it into shape like it’s nothing! Have you tried editing on a Tascam 788 with no click track? It’s no joke!

MB: But listening through the releases to date – DandyCOQ is the latest – isn’t that the case with most of what you’re releasing? I mean it’s hardly radio-friendly, and it does sound improvised.

BW: Maybe so, but at least Dandy screaming “D.A.N.D.Y. that’s why!” is a hook, y’know? Most of these guys could jam non-stop for hours once they’ve had a kick of the football, but I’m supposed to be a producer here! Take Reed Bleed. The guy can play every instrument in the studio. He’s got a thousand riffs. But trying to get a structured song out of him is like pulling teeth. Then he writes one – “Snowblind & Snowed Under” – I record it and he only wants ten copies, and he can’t decide on a cover. Do I have a picture of a yeti? Does anyone?!

MB: And Menu?

BW: Menu’s the opposite. He’s got the songs, but try getting a performance out of him! You’re talking about a hobo with a beaten-up acoustic guitar and no band who doesn’t wanna be a “folk singer”. You bring in the Cheese on drums and he says he doesn’t want “that rock shit”. What does he want? Mo Tucker. So I make him a Tucker loop and he says he doesn’t like “that fake shit”. And I mean, just a tiny bit of self-promotion would help. There are Menu fans who wonder if he even exists!

MB: I have to admit I’ve had doubts myself.

BW: If COQ’s the self-appointed Big Bird of rock then Menu is the Snuffleupagus.

MB: Quite. Menu sightings?

BW: He was around here the other night with COQ apparently, trying to record that “Kill Rock” song again. But I haven’t seen him since Hidden Valley.

MB: To return to the unreleased albums, apparently COQ offered to release them himself on COQ Records.

BW: COQ Records! Ha! The guy can’t even finish a song, much less release it! He’s been pitching me the idea of a subsidiary since I took six months to edit the CDP.

MB: Without wanting to fan the fire, maybe you take things too seriously. This is hardly Shady through Aftermath, after all.

BW: Is Shady through Aftermath? I thought it was Interscope. And now COQ’s got us talking his rap shit!

MB: But the point still stands: Do you, Ben W, take things too seriously?

BW (thinks for a moment): Maybe I wouldn’t have bothered starting CIR if I didn’t believe that one day it was gonna be listened to. That we were gonna have an audience, spread across time and space, who’d be curious enough to dig back into the past and sift through all this wacky lo-fi shit for nuggets of gold.

MB: It sounds as if now *you’re* talking about a crossover hit.

BW: Maybe I am. But I’m not deluded enough to think we’ve already got one. And I’m not gonna go around shouting about it.

MB: And yet here you are talking to a journalist.

BW: Oops! The beginning of the end? Or can we just keep this between ourselves?

[* The quote is from Ern Malley]